Wayfarers of Veeshan

Hail WoV,

I am so glad this thread got started because I have a lot of views on this issue. I began playing EQ as a rogue and then moved on to the wizard class. I knew absolutely nothing about medding, casting time, spell interupts, etc.. etc. It took me a long time to learn about DMG to mana efficiency and I had to do a ton of trial and error b4 I could do the things I wanted to do but maintain some mana. It was critical for me to learn all I could about mana efficiency because I gained most of my levels by soloing.

The point I'm trying to make, is that I personally feel that most people who are higher in level have used a LOT of trial and error to figure out what works best for them. They have tried several techniques and used many options to get to where they are and it is difficult to approach someone and tell then they are doing something wrong when they have taught themself, "This is the correct action for suchandsuch situation."

I do not like to tell people how to play their characters because me, personally, would be offened. First reaction would be, "Who the heck are you (any other class but a wizard) going to tell me how to play when I have gotten myself this far. On the other hand, I have always been open for suggestions. For many moons now I have grouped with Salyon, Little, Oxana, Katiasky, Irodanis and others. In many of these adventures, I have gained aggro due to sitting and medding. So Salyon politely/joikingly made the statement, "I think that mob was telling you to get a horse." It was a funny, true, and much needed statement that I needed to hear. I have been putting off buying one for a while now for the sake of buying better gear, but now that I have a lizard to ride I am a better wizard for it .

Making a suggestion to someone can be a very beneficial thing to the group as a whole, and probably to the player overall. But it can be damaging or hurtful if it is not delivered appropriately. It has been my experience that some people act like know-it-alls and will try and force their beliefs on others, while other people make observations and make suggests for improvement. It is first group that will not own up to their mistakes and place blame on others for reassurance which I think is cowardly . It is the second group that can make us see things in the world that we could not normally see, and by doing so can make us better players (people) in the end.

So if you want to make a suggestion just take a step back and make sure that what you are going to say wouldn't hurt your feelings if it was said to you. I think that measure can usually determine if you should say it or not. Furthermore, if you see that a technique you are currently using isn't working or you are living on the edge with the well-being of the group, maybe you should ask a question or maybe just try a different technique. It's fun to teach yourself new ways to play, it keeps things from getting stale.

And by the way if I break mezz with A Rain DMG spell, it's not my fault! You shouldn't have mezzed him so close to the other mob

Point made,

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"Here comes the BOOM!"

Reclusa Loxoceles
Rogue of the 52nd season

Negra Panthera
Beastlord of the 33rd season

As a paladin I had considerable difficulties trying to get a group from lvl 40-50. Basically what happened was this:

From lvl 1-20 I had literally 0 understanding of a group dynamic. For the most part I soloed by myself, and in the times I didn't I didnt even consider what the other classes in my group were. Nobody really made any comments to me I'm guessing because I did my job as a damage dealer and that was that.

It was only from lvl 20-39 that I actually began to understand the role my character played in the group dynamic. Believe me, this didn't come from me figuring it out but from one of my oldest EQ friends who helped me understand what I was doing. He was the ranger of the group and our friend (well his RL wife) was the bard and I was the pally tank. Pretty much he got me to understand the idea of a tank when he said to me "C'mon Orion, you should be able to hold aggro for as long as possible. Try your taunt, bashing, and stuns." Ironically, up til that point I didn't even understand the value of the stun line of spells because I had never even used them before. (Imagine a pally who doesn't use his stuns, that basically takes away one of their biggest contributions until the late game).

From lvl 40-50 though, I had problems finding a group as a tank, but with me gaining Greater Healing, I smoehow found myself with the role of healer in the group. Again, I didn't actually know anything about timing heals, but it was constructive criticism from members of the groups I found myself in that helped me figure out how to best contribute to the group.

Usually, I don't give out advice unless asked because everyone has their own style of play. However, I've been very appreciative of the criticisms I've received because it helped me learn things I never would have figured out otherwise. Still, I respect that not all people share this opinion, so it's a good idea to kind of edge yourself into a conversation if you're going to give advice, and hey you never know you may learn a thing or two yourself from them.

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Expert Artisan Orionpax
Master Alchemist Raznorak
"Til' all are one!" ~Optimus Prime

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Salyen 57 Conjurer (baron) 1 drop from epic!


Xabthik 40 monk
Slayinsongs 22 bard

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Drexxell , 71st GNecrOMancEr -- Wielder of ()
Druul , 60th Troll Shaman () + Wielder of and
Driss, 51st Dwarf Priestess of Brell Serilis
Dralia, 36th Erudite Enchantress

Cy I am level 44 druid and I have quad kited in my younger days ... my blood pressure couldn't take it!!! ROFL

I like root dot and that's primarily what I use.

Good points on this thread .. thank you for starting it Durezil! I like the comments that have been made.

One more point to add ... I think some folks as players have a more aggressive want and need for improvement and advancement and may not recognize immediately that someone else may have a slower, gentler pace. Therefore, when criticism comes along, constructive tho it may be, the person doing the criticizing can't understand how the slower, gentler player took offense. Salyon your point about Nealyn sending you a tell is a good one. For the slower, gentler player ... send the person a tell and maybe you can both learn something about it (not trying to suggest Nealyn is slow .... hehe ... but this is really how that situation would apply to me and has applied to me in the past, so this is a lesson I really need to learn hehe). I have a tendency to get hurt feelings, get really upset and not send tell and call the person on what upset me. Keeping it to yourself is not the answer.

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Kithrana Lifeweaver
Cleric of Tunare

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Art is the lie that makes us see the truth

I only feel that it is necessary to comment on peoples playing style when I have to be rezzed 3 times in a row for someone's error. If I'm still alive I dont really care what they're doing as long as the mob is dead and I and the rest of the group are not. But when you use and AE mezz and get like 5 mobs with it and 2 different melee go after 2 different targets and the cleric is saying "LOM" and I keep trying to mezz the mob and he keeps hitting something other than what the MT is hitting I get a little mouthy because that = dead people with 5 mobs around you... yeah not good. 99% of my exp is done without ever having to make a suggestion. I would hope to assume that the people that I group with while I'm 60 have gotten to where they are by doing something correct.
(This was not ment to sound moody in anyway)
-Enerra 60 enchanter

Moody? naa..

Sounds like your average L60 enchanter to me.

I'm the exact way.

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-- Mindbender Llaffer Outloud
L70 ENC
<select name=Skills>
<option>78 past 1750
<option>272 from 2100
<option>Jewelry:300+Trophy
<option>Tailoring:259+Geerlok
<option>Pottery:256+Geerlok
<option>Smithing:256+15%
<option>Fletching:254+Geerlok
<option>Baking:252+Geerlok
<option>Brewing:251+Geerlok
<option>Research:202+Geerlok
<option>Alcohol Tolerance:200
<option>Fishing:182
</select>

I have a rule for pick-up groups. If I die once because of stupid play, I'll make a helpful suggestion in regards to how the situation can be avoided in the future. If I die a second time for the same stupid reason, I simply leave the group without rancor.

Of course, I don't have that option when I die due to MY OWN stupidity, heh.

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Art is the lie that makes us see the truth

i know its been a while since anyone posted anything on this but i just read it and thought i would add my i myself ask alot of advice about what AAs other monks would recomend and stuff like that but i dont want to hear someone telling me when to pull not to worry about pulling more then 1 cause the way i see it is if im pulling its becuase of my ability to pull one. as far as me giving advice i try not to but sometimes i still do but i am very careful about making sure it comes across as advice not telling them what to do

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i came i saw i pulled
R*I*P* Chakshiax
LOL

Wow, reading this thread sure brought back lots of memories :)