Wayfarers of Veeshan

Please don't be offended by my comments. I meant it as a indication of my general feeling on the issue.

Alle, by saying that you know that Cintarra can't dot as soon as Alle can, shows that you don't Need an assist call. You play your character, and learn as you play in groups and on raids, and you know what Cintarra can do.

We all go through the learning process. By the time you are in your 50's (with a 65 main or not), you should have an idea of the abilities of your character in a group. Err on the side of caution in an unkown grouping or raid, and figure out what you can and can't do. After a short time you will be much more effective in your group or raid if you can figure out your limits and Not rely on an assist call. I can only use myself as an example...

In a raid or group that uses the Assist Call, I am generally less effective than in a raid or group that does not use one. If I am waiting for the assist call for 10 seconds (as an example), then that's three songs I am not singing to debuff the mob or boost the group or raid (yes, group and raid boosts generate agro). Those debuffs and group boosts make the entire group or raids initial attacks and nukes/dots land better, harder, and faster with more effect than if I'm not singing them. I know that by singing my songs and doing my attacks at the right time, I am all but guaranteed Not to get agro from the mob off of the MT. By waiting for the call, the initial casts are going to be less effective and in general 'waste' more mana if I'm not singing my attack and debuff songs.

I realize that we need to use Assist Call style hunting on occasion. I'm not saying it's a 'bad' thing to rely on it. Its just always been my feeling that a group or raid that doesn't need to use it is more effective than one that does.

I have, and will, use that Assist Call on past and future raids when it's needed. We should all, however, work on how to figure out our most effective way to play.

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70 Bard, at your service
Elder, Wayfarer of Veeshan

Also, , , Irodanise (52 Pal), Irodanes (31 Rog), Iroardanis (19 BL), Sinadori (25 SK), Dreminal (32 Dru)

Me agrees wit Vae dat by the time we gets ta 50..we should have da Knowledge ta determine wen we should attack. But....me has seen in lotso times that sumone in a large raid grup forgets or is over-anxious an dies. Den dere be da peep dat starts raggin on em an den sumone gets mad. Me likes da call ta assist ... den everyone is workin on da same page o music. Some o da tings we need ta do in raid situation should not be necessary but me tinks dat dey be good idea as da coordination o da fites be da critical tingy lotso times and dat is one more tool ta keep alla da peep...an gnomes...coordinated. (if dat be possible wit Gnomes)

If sum nuker duz it too early...da critter ken run to da nuker who may be sittin by da cleric and next ting yas knows...cuz da tank wanderin which direction da critter run....dere be 2 or 3 crunchy nukers on da ground! Me been in lotso places wit da melee and me finds dat ifn yas tells peeps ta let da critter ta gets ta so-an-so health for engagin...somewun dies. Ifn yas says wait for da MT ta holler attack...dey tend ta stay more coordinated.

But dat be me humble opinion )

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Surphat, Dragon Rider!

Surphat (DH) Paladin of 52 Seasons
Surfeedar Monk of 55 Seasons
Surhinlain Shaman of 62 seasons
Srailkat Rogue of the 52 Seasons
Sursadan Cleric of 57 Seasons
Surailadan Ench of 56 Seasons

/fires up dorfspeak translator

/shakes dorfspeak translator

/peers into dorfspeak translator

/sigh

I think I agree with you, Surphy.

LOL Alley.

It's good to hear others opinions about this current topic. I hope some of the newcomers post their thoughts as well. It might be good to get a fresh perspective from some of the people that have very little raid experience.

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Visionary Durezil Coppahtahp -- kidnapped by a Gold Wing
Reaver Veloquin Ashheart
Baby Tunash Heartsong

"I may not know the way but if you follow me, together we will find it." ~me

Good points, from all sides, but even so, I remain firm in my belief that an assist call is a good thing on raids, and even more so for the upcoming Dragon Hunts. However, the choice of whether or not to make the "assist call" part of the rules of the RAID is up to the RAID leader. Thus, there's really only 2 immutable rules for any given raid:

1) The RAID leader makes the rules for each raid
2) When in a RAID, follow the rules of the RAID leader

Otherwise you get "too many chiefs, not enough warriors".

BecauseI had so much success using the assist call*, I can tell everyone that if I lead raids in the future, you can expect that waiting on the assist call will probably be a rule I'll use, but as we can see, there are different opinions and when I'm in a raid but not leading, I'll gladly follow the rules of the current raid leader I'm with.

Drex

* Specifically, on the Kael raid: We began with an open format of just letting everyone decide on their own when to attack, and had quite a few aggro issues. After someone made the suggestion to switch to an assist call, and I implemented that as "the rule", the fights took a DISTINCTIVELY smoother and safer tone. It was just too much of an improvement for me not to rely on that tool again.

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Drexxell , 71st GNecrOMancEr -- Wielder of ()
Druul , 60th Troll Shaman () + Wielder of and
Driss, 51st Dwarf Priestess of Brell Serilis
Dralia, 36th Erudite Enchantress

Just to add to this. I noticed we were having major issues with the MT not getting and keeping aggro due to people responding too quickly ot the mobs. I feel that in this case it was a good idea to have the assist call atleast for now until we get used to playing these alts in raid format. At some point it will get to the point everyone will just know when to attack and when not to but being the first raid for many people on those toons it did help the situation alot. We might know how to play our mains incredibly well but our alts are completely different in play styles and something to adjust to because of that.

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Warning this is a random note from the OlBiTtY cO. Viewer Discretion is Advised

President of the Allegretta Fan Club

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Vaeuryte Moonchaser
70 Overlord


"SUCCESS isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire"
-Arnold Glasgow
'What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?"
-Dr Robert Schuller

Of course, of course...having a monk makes it easy...barring that, we go to plan B:

1) Ranger shoots bow at monster to pull
2) Warrior engages
3) Ranger fails to lose aggro and actually dies, having the same strategic effect as a feign death.
4) Warrior THEN gains aggro
5) Warrior calls for assist
6) Mob dies
(7) Ranger gets a rez.
Wash rinse repeat.

But, in all seriousness, of course the puller (if truly needed) would need to be re-considered sans monk. I'd PROBABLY go with a SK*, since they can FD and if they fail to do so will probably be able to take a smacking from the mob til the MT arrives. But YMMV, and this is the time and place to discuss it, not in the field, so I'm glad we're having this great chat about it.

Drex

* of course, every decision needs caveats: for example, the SK would need to be WITHOUT PET or else their pet will rush to their master's aid at the first hint of a battle.

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Drexxell , 71st GNecrOMancEr -- Wielder of ()
Druul , 60th Troll Shaman () + Wielder of and
Driss, 51st Dwarf Priestess of Brell Serilis
Dralia, 36th Erudite Enchantress

i would reccommend if we have no bard or monk to pull to use a pally if not then let the warrior tank and hope there is a mezzer / rooter around

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Warning this is a random note from the OlBiTtY cO. Viewer Discretion is Advised

President of the Allegretta Fan Club

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe Drex has a scenario for every possible combination/eventuality?

Anyone?

*looks around*

I didn't think so. :)

Thank you for the nod to my A.R.-ness But I should mention that just because I started this thread and wanted to see us succeed, doesn't mean I'm leading every Dragon Hunt! I'll certainly try to lead at least one to each dragon, but I would very much like to see the guild as a whole use the DHers as a tool for everyone to refine their abilities to both participate in as well as LEAD raids. Really, I see no reason why we'd have to stop at one kill per dragon...I'd like to see them go down repeatedly until such time as enough folks wish to "unfreeze" their DHers and go on past 52.

Drex

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Drexxell , 71st GNecrOMancEr -- Wielder of ()
Druul , 60th Troll Shaman () + Wielder of and
Driss, 51st Dwarf Priestess of Brell Serilis
Dralia, 36th Erudite Enchantress

SK's get pets? er, I mean use their pets? I don't think I even bought my last two pet spells.

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Visionary Durezil Coppahtahp -- kidnapped by a Gold Wing
Reaver Veloquin Ashheart
Baby Tunash Heartsong

"I may not know the way but if you follow me, together we will find it." ~me

I actually use my pet for pulling when I get stuck with that role. First I FD then I send pet in to agro and call it back. Once the target is separated from those near it I stand up and bring it back to the group. If by chance the pet gets killed or agros more then 1 then all thats lost is a bone chip since I was FDd and got no agro.

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Master Artisan Kahmon Feelthenoize
- Fabled 100 Shadow Knight of Cestus Dei Atherius
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